Posts tagged christian apologists

nonplussedbyreligion:

teachthemhowtothink:

Did this just happen??

I’ve had an ongoing conversation taking place with a very persistent theist for the last several months.  Today reached a new low.

I was basically asked “How do you explain answered prayers?” and I responded with this:

 If you can thank god, you can blame him. 

So… if you want to thank god for answering a prayer for a job, for example, a job which you went to school for, had huge amounts of experience for, applied for, interviewed well for, were qualified for and then had someone choose you for… fine. 

But then you must also think that this same god that did all this for you decided to NOT “help out” the approximately 25,000 people that died from hunger-related issues yesterday. The 2000 children that were raped yesterday. The 1400 woman that died in childbirth yesterday.

Either god is evil or god doesn’t exist. I choose the latter.

He responded:

I guess this comes down to the belief that when we sinned, it caused a divide between humans and God. It is in this divide where sin and its effects abound. God does not create these horrible effects, but does allow them to happen.

So he can do something, but doesn’t. You choose evil.

Sickness, death, pain, etc. are all a result of sin, a choice that we made as humans. So why doesn’t God just step in and wave His hand to rid the world of such injustices?
I believe that God works through these injustices. If there were no pain in this world, we would simply forget about God…He wouldn’t be needed. He allows these things to happen to bring us to Him…

So again… evil. God’s plan involves the raping of children in order to bring us closer to him. Sounds like a psychotic monster to me.

There have been many books written about this…why does God allow bad things to happen to good people. It is an odd combination where we can see that God is an incredible loving God, but yet He is a just God, and there are consequences for our actions as mankind. The Bible says that God will punish us to the third and fourth generation for those that sin against him, but yet He will show favor to a thousand generations of those that love Him.

Yup. The bible also says that god punished 42 children by having them mauled by bears because they called a prophet “baldy.” Pretty entertaining book.

It is much like you as a parent…when your son does something wrong, you love him, yet you have to punish him. When he is about to make a mistake, sometimes you have to let him make it so that he can learn even if you know what is going to happen. You are not a monster for doing this, you are a great parent. It’s hard, but necessary.

Right. Have children raped and mauled by bears to teach them a lesson.  Makes perfect sense.

Yes, it would seem that some of the punishments are much too harsh, but it is not ours to decide.

———

I’m so angry I cannot even formulate a response right now.  ~JJ

JJ is my friend, I mean my friend off of Tumblr not just on here, so I’m pissed that she had to deal with this asshole.  

When I say that Christian apologists are in my opinion the lowest of the low, this is what I’m talking about.  To say that atrocities visited on our children are generational punishment for things that happened in the past is one of the reasons why I cannot and will not ever return to religion. 

This guy is a special breed of asshole, and his arguments show just how little he actually understands the Bible.  When you are going to use scripture as a weapon, you better freaking understand it’s context or people like me will call you on your bullshit. He’s using Numbers 14:17-18 that says, “Now may the Lord’s strength be displayed, just as you have declared: The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion.  Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.”

Lets talk about the book of Numbers.  The purpose of this book is to tell the story of how Israel prepared to enter the promise land, how they sinned, were punished, and how they had to try again.  The audience were the people of Israel.  Numbers 14:17-18 was SPECIFICALLY speaking to those who were a part of the Exodus from Egypt who had sinned against God in the desert.  God was going to kill them, but Moses pleaded for their lives and when God was done throwing his temper tantrum over something his omniscience should have seen, he assured them that no one who saw the miracle in Egypt would set foot into the promise land.

How does any of that translate to kids who are abused today being punished for sins committed by the Israel?  When people randomly pull quotes from the Bible to fit their purposes without knowing the

context, I absolutely lose it!  Don’t pretend that quoting the Bible supports anything.  If you think it does, make sure you know the full application and interpretation of the words you’re using to condemn people or support your arguments.   When you fail to do so, the only thing you achieve is atheists like me, spending the time to highlight the errors of you arguments.

All of this is important, but irrelevant.  If you are an adult that believes children deserve to be raped, murdered, abused, suffer unbelievable trauma and pain because it’s God’s will, then you need to come see me when something that horrible happens to your child.  I want to see you look your son or daughter in the eye and tell them, “God loves you, that’s why this happened.”  Unbelievable.  ~ Kim

I hate hate HATE the “God is just being a loving parent trying to teach his beloved special babies a lesson” apologist bullshit.  It REPULSES me.  There are so many assholes out there who use this rhetoric to abuse their children and spouses; and to convince their victims that they are supposed to be victims.  This came up earlier when I read an article about how Michelle Duggar said the way to keep a marriage together was total wifely submission.  Like “even if you disagree, he knows best because he’s the MAN and you must hold back your own opinions and thoughts and feelings because they’re the DEVIL because you’re a woman and it’s YOUR FAULT all of the bad things happen in the world because your rib-made ancestor ate an apple that she wasn’t supposed to eat so never forget that all of the bad things in the world happen because you are a woman and you are lucky that a man even wants to make 19 million babies with you”-type wifely submission.

I’m sorry, anyone who says religion isn’t abusive needs to step the fuck back and look at themselves, not apologize for their abuser.

I apologize if this isn’t coherent but this type of apologism in particular just pisses me off so much I can’t even.

(Source: teachthemhowtothink, via nonplussedbyreligion-deactivate)